Speaker 1:
Welcome to The Parenting Without Power Struggles Podcast. Today you're gonna hear me talking with a parent whose daughter refuses to talk about the family's upcoming travel plans. We're gonna get started in a minute, but first, hi there. I'm Susan Stiffelman, your host and the author of Parenting Without Power Struggles and Parenting With Presence in this podcast, I get to share some of the things I've learned and discovered and figured out in my 40 plus years as a teacher, a marriage and family therapist, a parent educator, and a mom. We cover everything in this series with guests like Lisa Damour, John Kabat-Zinn, Ned Hallowell, Laura Markham, Maggie Dent, Mon Delahooke, and so many other wise and wonderful people. Before we get started, please visit susanstiffelman.com. You're gonna find a free newsletter there with lots of inspiration and support, and over 40 deep dive masterclasses on everything from chores and homework to sane routines and helping anxious children thrive.

Speaker 1:
Once you sign up, you'll be notified about upcoming masterclasses, including one on March 6th with Dr. Dan Siegel. And of course, you can find out about previous classes, including my most recent class with Dr. Gabor Mate, that's still available. So head on over to susanstiffelman.com to find out more. In today's session, I'm gonna be talking with Sam, a mother who, as she puts it, is facing this wonderful opportunity, but one that's created a lot of upset and resistance in her daughter. Have a listen and then we'll come back for the wrap up. Hi, Sam. Welcome.

Speaker 2:
Hi, it's nice to see you, Susan. I've been following your work for a couple years now, and I found you actually through Terry Cole, someone that I do some personal work with, and I'm always looking for wonderful, reinforcing parent opportunities, and your work spoke to me, spoke immediately. I first heard you talk about being the captain of the ship and just everything you say resonates on a level more than just verbally hearing you. I feel your work and the stories you've sh shared about your own family. So just an honor to, to follow your work.

Speaker 1:
Yeah, I'm really, really happy to hear that. I'm glad that you're here. So, what's your situation? What are we gonna talk about today?

Speaker 2:
We're gonna talk about an opportunity, and even by saying that I feel so so filled with gratitude that my question for you is about an opportunity, also about a sensitivity to our little ones feelings, <laugh>. So my husband and I have a 6-year-old daughter. She is incredible of course, and she'll be turning seven here in just a couple of weeks. Our family is, is going to, has been considering, but is going to travel the world for a year. We're going to take our family on a grand adventure, and my husband and I have been dreaming about this for quite some time, and the real planning of it has happened for a few months, but of course we've been really sensitive to how we share that with our daughter. We talked about travel when we have traveled as a family. She's an amazing travel.

Speaker 2:
She's really resilient. She's in first grade, she's doing great in school. So we dripped in little things about isn't it fun when we're all together? Isn't it fun to travel? The other night we realized it was time to just kind of uplevel that conversation with her. It's time to let school know that we're not returning. So we had a chat with her over dinner. It didn't go very well, <laugh>, it didn't go very well. Wow. And I, I think our expect, we tried to have reasonable expectations around that. But anyway really my question relates to how do we drip this information in? How do we get curious about how she's feeling? How do we do this? Well, her emotion was immediate and just, I, I like home. I don't, we could go on vacations. Two weeks is okay, but I can't go for longer. So I also understand that time is, is hard for her to understand. So that is my question. How do we, how do we work with her and do this? Well,

Speaker 1:
It is such a cool question and not a common one. Of course. I mean, there's tentacles that reach into lots of scenarios because the under underbelly of this is how do we help a child adapt to a new or unfamiliar or perhaps seemingly undesirable situation. So there's, that applies no matter what the scenario, you just happen to have it in this kind of exceptionally cool opportunity. Is that for a year, did you say?

Speaker 2:
Yes, that's, that's our approximate timing, yes.

Speaker 1:
Okay. I don't know if you know this, but when my son was 15, I, I took him for two and a half months. I rented our house out and took him outta school, and in fact, he turned 15 in Uganda <laugh>. And so we were in Africa and then we flew, I don't know, a thousand hours over to Australia and then New Zealand and had this same, you know, beautiful knot for a year. But he went to India for the first time when he was not quite two and a half. So he had traveled most of his life, and I long have believed that taking a child, if you have the means and resources, and not very many do, but if you happen to when they're young, does set them up for some tremendous advantages in terms of adaptability, flexibility, open-mindedness. You know, I know he went, he did, instead of, you know, the, the kids who go to college and they do a semester abroad in France or Berlin, he went to Dakar in Senegal and he lived with a family in their basement <laugh>, like, so amazing.

Speaker 1:
You know, the, that may not have happened if he hadn't been, had the internal lived experience of being in uncomfortable situations. And so I, I think it's a great opportunity and I'm really happy that your daughter is gonna have that. And of course, she only knows what she's lived and at six, that's not a whole lot. Yeah. So this is really, you know, I don't know about you, but if you ever jumped off the high diving board in a swimming pool, the first time is just terrifying because you don't think it looks that high when you're on the ground. But then you get up there and it's like, oh no, that is never gonna happen. <Laugh>, <laugh>, and then you do it once and what is it? You know, I wanna do that again and again. Or it's a ride at Disneyland, you think I can't do that.
Speaker 1:
And then you do it and then, and then it becomes this thing you've mastered. So mastery is a really important concept here. And I think what I would start with is, what you've done is lovely. You've sort of spoken about it in a vague way, and then you're starting to bring it into reality. One thing we know kids like, and this happens to, for instance, when a family is, is reconfiguring itself because of divorce or separation. Kids, kids are very ecocentric. So the first thing to think about is what will, she's not really thinking, oh, this is gonna be a great opportunity. And, you know, it's how will this affect me? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, yes. And children want stability. They want to know where the ground is and what you're proposing is the ground's gonna be in a few different places. So I would start by what do you think would be the stabilizing the, obviously you and your husband, but what is the through line for your travels that feels familiar to her, that she can grip onto that this is something that will always be the same?

Speaker 2:
Hmm. I love that. Yeah, that's a really good point. And you're right. I think so far we've just focused on the fact that the three of us will be together. And maybe we haven't created an additional through line. We talked about a little bit of how we'll still communicate with our family, how she could still zoom with her friends. Okay. but beyond that and continuing her learning, we'll do that together. But those, even as I say them to you you know, are not all that stable. So there hasn't really been a great through line yet for, for any of us really. <Laugh>.

Speaker 1:
Right. So I think one thing you might do is get out a big whiteboard or a big, you know, I love old fashioned newsprint flip charts and start making some visuals for her particularly if she is a visual child. And it might be, these are the things that will be different when we're traveling and these are the things that will be the same and really emphasize the things that'll be the same. So, for instance, you're still gonna have a bedtime, you're still gonna have to brush your teeth every night. We're still gonna have bedtime stories, and we will probably bring some, or, or go to the library wherever we are and get some really fun books. You'll still actually have to, you know, clean, you know, clean up after yourself. And so all the things that, that leave her feeling, oh, a lot of things will be the same, even though the location might be different.

Speaker 1:
The routines, routines are so valuable and important. I did a whole class on routines with Dr. Yamal Diaz. That was so cool. And so we know that this is a, that predictability is a very it reduces stress and stress is natural when you're going from one unfamiliar situation to another. So I would kind of start to either name in writing or draw pictures of all the things that will remain the same, or the things that are gonna be, we're gonna talk to grandma every Tuesday and Friday. Anything that leaves her feeling that there's solid ground below her.

Speaker 2:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Yes.

Speaker 1:
So, and then you might describe how, how frequently she's gonna be in touch with her friends or how that's gonna go. Like even if it changes, which it likely will, maybe you have a get together with some of her close friends who she thinks she'll miss and say, let's make a plan that, you know, every weekend. You know, depending on, of course, on the time zone you're in, we're gonna have a little quick check-in or that you have a, I don't know, you know, technology has so many pluses and not so many, you know, some negatives, but maybe it's a WhatsApp group where they can send each other pictures, she can share photos of where she is. So she feels like there's some kind of cool thing about it. And her friends are sort of going, oh yeah, I wanna see pictures of, you know, of animals or whatever. I'm pausing to see if any of these things sort of, you wanna say anything or ask me anything further about any of that.

Speaker 2:
Amazing. I'm taking furious notes, <laugh>. Exactly.

Speaker 2:
I, I love everything that you're saying, and I, it does, it does PA question, a curiosity for me. She's very visual. Part of that, so her, her arts and her crafts and her ability to be, you know, have creative expression, I think is really important to her. So for us to work that into it as well and doing some of this visually. My curiosity is the emotion was so high when we first brought it up and she's, she's emotional, but she's a pretty steady stable child. And this was such a quick reaction. There almost wasn't even still the doorway. So my curiosity is, again, bringing this up again. And if she just shuts it down so quickly again, I think she'll give us time. And I think, I think that gap widens as we continue to, to bring it up. But even having the opportunity to open the door a little wider, I think, I think my husband and I were not surprised that, that she was gonna have a big reaction, but how quickly it happened where we even just were like, and we just were like logged on her and we're like, I know that was a okay. And, you know, we're just, we discontinued on with our evening, but how might I stretch the opportunity to talk about it?

Speaker 1:
Oh, okay. Okay. Well, look you know, I don't know. I, I try not to do a lot of plugging of my other work, but I'm gonna put in a couple of plugs real quick. Not necessarily for you, but, 'cause I want, sometimes people hear this and they go, oh man, I'm supposed to listen to this podcast and implement it. So just to calm everybody down, I'm asking a lot when I make certain suggestions that are unfamiliar to parents. So there's support if you wanted support, I have a membership, it meets twice a month, and that's where I work slowly but surely shifting and helping parents internalize some of the approaches. And then there's an intensive and coming up, we're gonna have a, a very special offer for this intensive, it's a six, it was a six week program, so it's like, I don't know, eight hours.

Speaker 1:
And you get to walk through and address some of these issues at the core. So one of the things related to that is how you deal with frustration. And so, let me just touch on this here by saying that I think what I would start with next time you speak with her is a, in the back of your mind to recognize that in a lot of ways we're talking about frustration and loss. Okay. Put aside this beautiful, amazing thing that's gonna happen. And she's a child. She wasn't her idea to go, nor would we ever imagine it to be. So really we're looking at how we help her deal with frustration and this, and, and as woven into that is loss, loss of the familiar loss of her routines, loss of contact with the people she feels comfortable with. So loss of her bed, loss of. So there's a lot of loss there. And we in a, as a culture, are not terribly good at helping ourselves or our children manage loss. So where I think I would begin this ex next conversation would be and you can play the part of your daughter if you want. So sweetheart, you know, the other night when Daddy and I mentioned our, our, our plan to go on this incredible trip, it seemed like it was not something you liked hearing. Can you tell me more about that?

Speaker 2:
No, I just don't wanna talk about it anymore.

Speaker 1:
Oh, right. Okay. So it was so upsetting. You would rather just look the other way, not talk. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
I said we could go on vacation for a couple of weeks. That would be nice, but I don't under, no, I don't wanna talk about it.

Speaker 1:
Got it. Okay. Well, I respect that. If you ever do wanna talk about it, I'm here to listen. 'cause Clearly you had some really not very nice feelings about the idea. Yep.

Speaker 2:
Can we go play now? <Laugh>?

Speaker 1:
Yeah, let's go, let's go. So I'm not gonna out of the role play, I'm not gonna push this conversation on her,

Speaker 2:
Right?

Speaker 1:
Something has still taken place. Do you know what it was?

Speaker 2:
I mean, it felt that you were, you were relating to how I i playing her, how she was feeling. Like you definitely were relating to the, the feelings that are surrounding it. Like you, she would've felt heard in that recap.

Speaker 1:
And the fact that I'm not trying to force an, a longer conversation sends this nonverbal message that I'm relaxed about this. I'm not tense or stressed or anxious or trying to push an agenda on her to get this resolution or to get her approval or her agreement. I'm the captain of the ship. It's been decided that we're going, so I don't have this frantic energy about me, but we have to talk about it. But I want you to be happy. Nah, I don't, I'm the captain. I know we're sailing into a part of the seas that we've never been before. I'm very confident in that. And, and I've, so I've planted the seed for her that I'm here. I really understand that this was a lot to take in. It might be not something that sounds fun to you. You probably, and then I might go on if I could without forcing the conversation, maybe even in my opening before she shuts it down, I might say, you know, the other night when we brought it up, I'm got the feeling that you didn't like the idea of not being able to see your friends or having a different bed or not being in your house.

Speaker 1:
I, I have a feeling that was not something that you were excited about. And so now I've, I've offered her some validation even in the opening line. And then if she says, I don't wanna talk about it, she has still heard me validate what might be true for her. And there's, that is a way that kids feel safe and connected.

Speaker 2:
Hmm. I love that. Absolutely. I love that. I, I thank you. I really like how you just said too, that like the other underlying is that you are calm, confident, decided, and with that as your base, then all these conversations can happen where you can receive the high level of emotion that you can navigate that like when we're the, the constant.

Speaker 1:
Yes. And you'll notice, I'm not saying we really wanna go on this trip. Okay. <laugh>, because it's like, wait a minute, I thought you were the grownup here and you're not sure you're asking me as a 6-year-old whether it's okay. Oh. Like so,

Speaker 2:
So yeah, exactly. Not asking for the, her permission or her or agreement, just kind of holding what we know the emotion might be around it.

Speaker 1:
Exactly. Beautiful. And, and look, you, you have an agenda or a desire, and I understand to have a longer explanatory conversation with her to lay out what's gonna happen. And, and it may be a really smart thing to do, but she's not open to that yet. And you have time. So I would be having tiny little vacation conversation. It might even be fun if you made it a little game out of it where you write on a piece of paper every night by her toothbrush, she's gonna, you have a picture of something she might see on this trip, and now she might create, you might create some anticipation like, Ooh, I wonder what the next thing is gonna be. Oh, we're gonna see the changing of the guard in London. Oh, we're gonna, you know, see animals in Africa, whatever it is. So now you're, you're, you're peaking her interest, but in a very gentle, non-intrusive way.

Speaker 2:
Yes. I love that. And making, like you said, a game of it, which she is very keen. Everything's a game. And so that, you know, us being playful Yes. Fun, having the spirit of adventure, that is the whole reason we wanna do this about the approach really ties it in nicely.

Speaker 1:
Nice. It could even be that you have like a little hunt for it. Like for my son's birthday every year I would have a, a little scavenger hunt. And so he got, I gave him a piece of paper and a terrible poem that was just embarrassing and it would give him a clue to where the next stop was. And it might be under a couch cushion. It might be at his friend's house, you know, two doors. It's three doors down on their front step. And so he would have to go out looking for the next clue, which had a little gift. I mean, it might've been a bag of chips, <laugh>. And then that one with the bag of chips was the next glue. So you could also do something like that with her, where you're just making a little scavenger hunt for, you know, 10 places you're gonna plan hope to visit on this adventure. And now you've, as you said so beautifully, you're creating a sense of adventure about the adventure.

Speaker 2:
I love it. I love it. And I, I, I appreciate that there's this opportunity, even like we said, that this is a, a very positive, but to your point of anyone who's listening, what we're really still talking about is being adaptive, how to address change. And this, I think, will be a skill for us during all the kinds of changes that we'll be going through in so many years. So I, I like that this has kind of that message within as well.

Speaker 1:
Yes. Beautiful. Well, I know we're trying to keep these conversations short. They, they could go on and on, but thank you so much for raising your hand and, and signing up to have this little session with me. Any final thoughts or questions?

Speaker 2:
Oh, just a, a huge thank you for helping me just reinforce that this is a grand adventure and that her feelings matter, but can be navigated together in a really graceful way. And I just appreciate you so much.

Speaker 1:
Aw. Such a joy to talk with you and bon voyage. Just have the best, best time, <laugh>.

Speaker 2:
Thank you.

Speaker 1:
I look forward to, actually, if you think of it when you're back, I would love to get an email and just hear how it's gone.

Speaker 2:
Absolutely. You'll be on the communications list, <laugh>. Great.

Speaker 1:
Awesome. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed that. It's so much fun for me to not know what someone's question is gonna be, whether it's in these podcast episodes or in the member calls or coaching sessions that I do. It's just kind of a process where with the parent, we get to see where we need to go and what creative angles and solutions we can come up with to address the needs of each unique child. So I love that I get to share some of these with you, and I hope you're enjoying them. Please leave a rating, if you would. It would be so helpful. Better yet, a review, I think it just takes a minute or two, but it really does make a difference in the reach of these episodes in this series. So thanks for that. Do stay in touch by visiting susanstiffelman.com, so much material and support available for you there, including these upcoming class with Dan Siegel. And now let's wrap it up by just encouraging you once again to remember, no matter how busy life gets, look for those moments of sweetness and joy. Stay well, take care, and we'll see you next time.