Speaker 1:
Welcome to The Parenting Without Power Struggles podcast. Today you're gonna hear me coaching a parent who wants to talk about a pattern of anger and rage and coldness that she feels she inherited from her own upbringing. She calls it ancestral. These are behaviors that show up when her child pushes her buttons. I'm guessing that a lot of you can relate. We're gonna dive in in just a minute, but first, hi there. I'm Susan Stellman, your host. I'm the author of Parenting Without Power Struggles and Parenting with Presence. And in this podcast, I get to share some of the things I've learned in my 40 plus years as a teacher, a family therapist, an educator, and a mom. We cover everything parenting with guests like Mona Delahooke, Martha Beck, Byron Katie, Julie Lithcott Haims, Janet Lansbury, Kristen Neff, Tina Bryson, and many other wonderful speakers. Before we get started, do make sure that you're taking advantage of everything that we have to offer at susanstiffelman.com.

Speaker 1:
There's a free newsletter, lots of inspiration, tips, strategies, ideas, and over 40 deep dive master classes on everything from chores and homework to creating sane routines and helping anxious children thrive with really wonderful, wise colleagues, all of whom I'm sure are people of interest to you. And you could check it all out at my website. We've got a great session coming up with Dr. Dan Siegel, and I just did one with Dr. Gabor Mate on attachment. That's all available at susanstiffelman.com. In today's session, you're going to hear me having this really interesting conversation with a parent who wanted to talk about how these feelings of rage and coldness kind of take over when her buttons are getting pushed by her young child. And I, I loved the conversation so much because as I, as you'll hear me say at the beginning, it kind of addresses the root of something I'm all about in terms of my counsel and support the parents.

Speaker 1:
It's easy to give you a script or a strategy, and sometimes those are really, really helpful, <laugh>, there's nothing wrong with them. I have so many wonderful colleagues and we each have our own style and approach. But something I think I'm, I'm particularly interested in that isn't as common is that I believe we have to address the root. You can learn the best strategy, but if something on the inside of you is still acting out of a wounded place or an unhealed part of you based on your own childhood or something that you inherited down the generations, it's gonna be really hard to put those ideas into practice. And a lot of parents feel guilty or ashamed when they hear a great podcast or they read a wonderful book, or they take the class and then in real life, it's very hard to implement the things that they hear. So you're gonna hear me kind of expounding on that idea around addressing some of the deeper elements that are more unconscious, but that are very much at play often when we're backed into a corner. So here's the clip and I'll come back for the wrap up.

Speaker 1:
Hi, Marie. So very glad that you're here and you have such an interesting question. I'm, I'm looking forward to talking with you about it. Welcome, first of all.

Speaker 2:
Thank you.

Speaker 1:
How did you find us?

Speaker 2:
I think through Janet Lansbury. Okay,

Speaker 1:
Okay. Yeah. She's a, she's a great friend and colleague. So why don't you read your question.

Speaker 2:
Okay. And go there. Thank you. How do I tend to, and nurture empathy in myself to be able to not pass on my ancestral coldness, or sometimes I refer to as rage to my children so that our interactions and our attachment is stronger and more genuine. And so their interactions with their peers and the world is more of a genuine, empathetic viewpoint or comes from a, a deeper place.

Speaker 1:
I can't even tell you how much I love this question. And I think you said you took part in the class I did with Gabor Mate and I did. Yeah, we were talking about some of that too. So this question just makes my heart sing, honestly, <laugh> <laugh>

Speaker 1:
Because there are a lot of parenting people out there, and there's so many great people and so much great material. And I offer lots of practical strategies like many of my colleagues do. But what you're speaking about is sort of the undercurrent, like the, the thing that I'm really interested in, because I think if we just try and implement strategies without addressing the ancestral or the inherited uhhuh patterns and tendencies, we keep kind of stumbling. I think we, it's, it's only when we recognize that some of the, some of who shows up in those moments that we like are cold, like you said, or withholding or shaming or angry or screaming. Sometimes that version of us shows up and we're just like horrified, right?

Speaker 2:
Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
That isn't who you wanna be. And if we don't look at or explore a little bit what, why it's in there, like how we got to, to have that part of us, it just seems like we can't quite implement the, the strategies that are more in alignment with who we wanna be today as a parent.

Speaker 2:
Yes.

Speaker 1:
So do you wanna give an example, and we're always really protective of kids' privacy, so please don't mention your child's age or any identifying characteristic name, but just a general hypothetical scenario that would help parents who are listening kind of get an idea of what we're talking about on a practical way.

Speaker 2:
Sure. I have a preschooler who is a sensitive little human, and I say that in that they, they may do things like startle easily and don't enjoy loud sounds and things like that. And they tend to get very, they're very they're finding their voice, which is exciting, and they've had it for a while, but when they scream at me in particular, and I'm the only one myself and my husband, their father are really the only ones they scream at. So I understand that might be like a comfort or safe place, but when they scream at me after a while, I feel this boiling or this rising of rage, and it's almost like shaking. And I'm reminded deeply of my mom and her lineage. And it's, it scares me and I feel like I wanna walk away, but I don't because I know that's like abandoning a little human. But I just feel those moments. I don't know if I should like kneel to the ground and just put my hands on the ground. I think I saw someone do that once to try and give that energy to the ground. But I feel like I shouldn't even touch my child because I'm passing it on to them, you know, <laugh>.

Speaker 1:
Okay. Well, thank you. Like you've kind of given a nice scenario or kind of an, an example of not just the external circumstance, but what's going on internally. And I think a lot of parents can identify with that boiling feeling, like the outrage. And sometimes it seems so disproportionate to the crime. You know, somebody, somebody steals a cookie and you're like screaming and tasting them around the house. And you know, it is like, and if we judge ourselves or we come down on ourselves and like we go into a place of shame around it. Like, I shouldn't be that uhhuh, why am I, it's, she's just, he's just three years old, but

Speaker 2:
Right. And we,

Speaker 1:
What we're doing is we're skipping a really important opportunity. And the opportunity is, oh my gosh, I have this huge reaction to my toddler or three-year-old

Speaker 2:
Uhhuh

Speaker 1:
Challenging my request or my opinion or my suggestion in a very defiant way. And, and I'm not getting anywhere by doing the usual thing. Like, oh, but come on honey, it won't take long. Or let's, and this feeling of rage can come up. Is that a little bit familiar? Yes. Okay. And so where I like to start is in the most kind and accepting way toward ourselves, recognizing that we have many parts to us. Okay. And I think this is where that ancestral piece that you were referring to comes in. We have like this more sophisticated, more contemporary awareness of what is appropriate for a 3-year-old. Let's say your child's three, I don't know how old they are. And that part might be there hovering. I, if you could see me, you know, my hand is hovering off to the side, like, okay, here's the kind of wise regulated, you know, reasonable part going, oh, well there goes my 3-year-old again, Uhhuh, <affirmative>.

Speaker 1:
But then we also have the part over here, the, like, that gets into outrage that why doesn't anybody do what I want? When I ask why does everything have to be so difficult? Or I do so much for so many people, how come I'm so taken for granted that the simplest request doesn't get followed? Something like that. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So the first step is to be on friendly terms with all our parts. Okay. And it's not easy. So if, if you almost imagined interviewing this part that is like outraged and starts to get cold and withdrawn and withholding, and let's imagine that you close your eyes and maybe not in the heat of that moment, but you, you even now can kind of locate that that part does exist. It may be latent right now and quiet and not active, but that there is a part of all of us that has old stuff in there from how we were raised and what we witnessed by our parents doing and all kinds of traumas and wounds.

Speaker 1:
The more friendly we can be with all of our parts, including the part that gets cold and maybe shaming. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And it can start by maybe you put your hand on your heart as you breathe in and you recognize, oh, hello. And you could even give that part a name. Hello. Outraged part <laugh> or cold part. You're in there. I know you're in there. I may find it quite inconvenient 'cause I wanna be warm and friendly all the time. But I know you're in there and I know you're in there for a good reason. And this is where we have to go. And you again, you might have your hands on your face instead of, you might be hugging yourself. I know that all my parts are there for good reason. Okay? So the wounded parts of us, the part that might get cold, if I were to interview that part of you, Marie Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> you know, you could take on the personify that part of you that gets cold and outraged and withholding or whatever it does. And I were to say, well, hello. What, what, what would we call that part? I think resentment. Okay. Hello, resentment. I, I know that you're inside Maria, along with lots of other parts. Would you be willing to have a little chat with me?

Speaker 2:
Yes. I guess

Speaker 1:
So. Resentment, would it be fair to say that when you show up, you kind of take over for a little while?

Speaker 2:
Yes.

Speaker 1:
And when you show up, can you gimme an idea of what kind of turns the switch that brings you to life?

Speaker 2:
I think it's sound vibrations. When things get too loud for me, that might be something. Okay. Yes.

Speaker 1:
And, and here's what I know about all of the parts. Even the parts that we sort of like wish didn't exist, that they are what are called adaptations.

Speaker 2:
Oh, okay.

Speaker 1:
Okay. This is a really important word. And I know we only have a little short time today, but I wanna at least introduce this idea and thanks for volunteering

Speaker 2:
Uhhuh <affirmative>. But

Speaker 1:
That resentment is an adaptation. It's an attempt to kind of work around a wound.

Speaker 2:
Mm.

Speaker 1:
And the friendlier and more welcoming and accepting we can be that okay, there is this part of me that when I hear lots of loud noises and there's too much going on, or too many demands are being made of my attention, or energetically, there's just too much busyness. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> that, that adaptation believes rightly or wrongly that it needs to take over.

Speaker 2:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>,

Speaker 1:
Does this make sense?

Speaker 2:
Yes. Yes.

Speaker 1:
And the adaptation in your case. Tell me what the adaptation does on your behalf. Perhaps not what you wish cognitively or in the more advanced sophisticated thinking, but on your behalf, what does this resentment do when it does take over?

Speaker 2:
I think it's trying to take control of the situation and make everything calm down. Or just stop it. It's trying to stop all the how the spiraling out of control feeling.

Speaker 1:
Okay. And how does it do that? What, what is its, what are a couple Its strategies.

Speaker 2:
I think it's usually, sometimes I will yell back. I'll just say, please stop yelling at me. But my voice is not at this level. It's, it's almost yelling too. Okay.

Speaker 1:
Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So you might yell to protect, to, to restore a feeling of safety.

Speaker 2:
Right. So

Speaker 1:
You might yell anything else?

Speaker 2:
No, it's really just me yelling back. I don't, oh. What I have been doing, what I figured out with this little one is that if I ask, if I'm able to control myself and I say, do you need a hug? Then it helps both of us

Speaker 1:
<Laugh>. Nice, nice, nice. And

Speaker 2:
Then they, they say yes.

Speaker 1:
Well,

Speaker 2:
I mean, a couple times when they're so upset, they say no. But then after a little they will say yes.

Speaker 1:
Amazing because what, what what you're doing is you're, you're offering a co-regulation to your child who's dysregulated. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And, and, and touch is such a, a great way to regulate your nervous system as well as your child. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So having that hug kind of, kind of soothe your whole system, moving you out of a state of alarm and, and danger to a place of, oh, okay, I'm in contact with another human being and and my heartbeat will, your heart will, you know, slow down and relax your, all of those physiological symptoms will start to settle. So I know we have to wrap this up and I apologize in advance

Speaker 2:
Because No, thank you so much. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
That's a good topic. There's so much to work with here. And of course I do have a membership. I meet twice a month with parents. Oh

Speaker 2:
Yes. Thank you.

Speaker 1:
Into great depth. But in this case, you know, just by way of kind of bringing some closure to the conversation Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> would it, would you consider next time, 'cause I promise you, sorry, there'll be a next time that you're feeling that buildup of rage. What would it be like for you to put your hand on your heart or your hands on the side of your face? And to start by saying, just naming what's going on? I'm feeling a boiling sensation come up. No judgment, just noticing. This is what I'm noticing.

Speaker 2:
I was saying the hand on the heart that when I tried the other one's, hand on the heart feels like something I would, I connect with. And then I would like my little one to see me doing that. I feel like the visual, that's what I'm looking for too, so thank you. Right. And then, and then even maybe verbalizing it out loud so they know what I'm doing. Yeah, yeah. Or something.

Speaker 1:
And, and we don't wanna alarm our kids. Like I notice that I'm moving into a place of extreme rage, but you could just comment on what's going on in your, in your body and your, your emotional being. I notice I'm starting to get really upset. I notice I'm feeling very frustrated. I notice that my heart is beating really fast. And these are just ways that we model, as you said at the beginning, you wanted to model for your child healthier ways of approaching tough situations and building empathy. So just commenting out loud as you said, I noticed that, you know, there's a part of me and I love using that parts language. There's a part of me right now that's really frustrating or having a hard time.

Speaker 2:
Okay. Thank you. That's very helpful.

Speaker 1:
My pleasure. And then, and then, you know, see where that goes. Because as you model it for your child, generally what happens is that as we heal this, our kids magically start to heal too. And the beauty of what you're talking about, and the reason that your question thrills me is that my work is very much about breaking patterns from one generation to the, the current one. So that what your parents and grandparents and great grandparents did, that's now in your cells and bones. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And that is, you know, influences how you show up with your children can be changed. Yeah. That's the whole of my work is about supporting parents and in my intent, in my membership and all the classes, that that's all about bringing some of the darker forces to light so that they can be worked through and released and then your kids don't have it. They get a, a new fresh shot.

Speaker 2:
Yay. Oh yeah. <Laugh>.

Speaker 1:
Yeah.

Speaker 2:
Thank you. That was so help. This is so helpful. Thank you.

Speaker 1:
It's been a joy to talk with you and thank you. I look forward to staying in touch. Bye-Bye.

Speaker 2:
Yeah, thank you. Bye.

Speaker 1:
I hope you enjoyed that. I love that kind of conversation that goes deep and that looks beneath the surface at some of those forces that are usually unconscious that play out in the day to dayness of our parenting experience. So much opportunity in those tough moments for us to uncover things that are there from long ago or that are kind of in the, on the fringes of our awareness and use those things for us to grow and heal and to help our kids have a healthier chance at life. And being more aware and as she talked about, empathetic, just learning how we operate and what, what's at play when parts of us take over. You know, trying to protect us in some way or manage overwhelm and that we can be on friendlier terms with all parts of ourselves and understand that intentions are always good even though they may not currently be serving us.

Speaker 1:
So anyway, different kind of conversation than how to get a child to put their shoes on, but it actually is still relevant to those practical moments. If you enjoyed it, I would so appreciate you leaving a comment or a rating, a review. It's really helpful. It just takes a minute and it's really valuable for us. Thanks for that. And please do stay in touch by visiting susan stellman.com. Lots of support for you. Free, very affordable classes, memberships, the intensive, so many ways to do the deep and wonderful and practical, transformational work that can allow us to be that calm, present, connected captain of the ship I talk about. Now, let's just take a beat, take a moment and thank yourself for showing up. Acknowledge yourself for making this effort to grow and learn. And remember, no matter how busy life gets, look for those moments of sweetness and joy. Stay well, take care and I'll see you next time.