Speaker 1:
In today's episode, you're gonna hear me talking with a parent who's also a therapist about the challenge of raising a young adult in late teen who has a DHD, maybe a little disorganized and forgetful, but who's also wanting and needing to assert their independence. So it's a great conversation and I look forward to sharing it with you in just a minute. First of all, welcome to the Parenting Without Power Struggles podcast. I'm Susan Stiffelman, I'm your host. I'm the author of Parenting Without Power Struggles and Parenting with Presence, an Eckhart Tolle edition. In this podcast, you're gonna hear me share some of the things that I've learned in my 40 something years as a teacher, a, a family therapist, a parent educator, and of course a mom. We cover everything here, everything under the sun with people like Lisa Damore, John Kabat Zinn, Debbie Reber, Judith Orloff, Kristen Neff, Tina Bryson, Michelle Borba, so many wonderful people.

Speaker 1:
So have a look around. You can also visit my website at susanstiffelman.com. We have a free newsletter that has a lot of inspiration and tips and support. And at susanstiffelman.com, you'll see that there's over 40 deep dive masterclasses on everything from chores and homework to creating kind of sane routines, helping anxious children thrive and dealing with sibling conflicts. So lots is available to you. We have a great session coming up with Dr. Dan Siegel, and I just did one with Dr. Gabor Mate on attachment, which was so well received, and you can check that out at the website. Now I'm gonna play you the coaching session that I did with a parent of the teen. It's a really interesting, very deep conversation. A lot of material covered, something I think you'll get a lot of value out of. Enjoy. Have a listen and I'll come back for the wrap up. Hi.

Speaker 2:
Hi, <laugh>,

Speaker 1:
How are you?

Speaker 2:
Good, thanks. I'm so happy to be talking to you. I've been following you for so long. <Laugh>,

Speaker 1:
What a treat for me then, too. Thank you. So why don't you start by just saying how you landed here and what you know about my work or what level of familiarity you have.

Speaker 2:
Yeah, so as I mentioned, I've been following you for a very long time. My, my kids are teenagers now, but since since they were, I wanna say elementary school and just I have a, a, a full library of your, you know, just the different videos over time and and really try trying to implement and understand the captain. And, and also I'm a therapist at a agency where we serve underprivileged community members. I've done a parenting class where I've helped people with your ideas while also implementing the stuff at home as best I can. The most recent thing I watched was the g Gabor Gabor Mateo was, I always say his name. Yeah,

Speaker 1:
Yeah,

Speaker 2:
Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, and my son has a DHD, the one i I wanna talk about today. Okay. And like I said, got introduced to Ned Hallowell through his interview with you and just, you know, really expanded my view and my views on parenting and, and really trying to connect with my children. So thank you.

Speaker 1:
My pleasure. I'm, I just love actually getting to talk with people because this work goes out electronically and Yes. You know, it's so great to interact, so, Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So, thanks for showing up. So, let's talk about your son. Obviously we won't mention a name, but kind of what the situation is and what you've noticed, what you've tried, what isn't working, what you'd like some help with.

Speaker 2:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So I think specifically where he's at now you know, he's young adult and, and kind of transitioning to possibly college soon. And is this amazing musician and, and very bright and, you know, has this very just disorganized room, really hard to, to kind of get him to commit to things and forgetful on his way out, on his way in. And I find that it's harder and harder to connect, especially when I am in that mode of just, you know, not saying his name. It's hard not to say his name, but just, you know, well, let's

Speaker 1:
Call him Tommy.

Speaker 2:
Okay. Tommy, did you, you remember your appointment with your, whoever, your tutor, your college counselor, and, and he's gotten to the point where he kind of just, you know, we start it, it's just becomes this bickering. And and then I notice sometimes I'll, I'll, he, I'll just go over and try to give him a hug or just kind of reach out in some way. And he totally responds to that and I realize, oh, I'm not, this is not, you know, it's not working this other thing, but I end up doing it. Anyway,

Speaker 1:
<Laugh>, I love, I love, first of all that you, you know, thank you for that. And I love that you're a therapist and you know, just for all you parents out there who are not therapists, trust me, we struggle too. Yes. And

Speaker 2:
Yes,

Speaker 1:
The kind of honesty of that and the authenticity of that, because look, who among us really is up to the task <laugh> of raising another human being. And, you know, we're all flying by the seat of our pants at least some of the time. And yet, as you so sweetly pointed out in those moments when you sort of put aside the, the concern about if he's getting things done and remembering appointments and you just reach out to make loving contact with him, that he's responsive to that Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> and not all kids, by the way, are 'cause it could easily have been. Yeah. And he pushes me away, which wouldn't have surprised me at all because a lot of the teens, and we talked about this in the class with governor mate, are like, no, I don't want anything to do with you either because of long-term resentment toward us, ways we have not been connecting in a loving way for too long and or 'cause they're individuating and it's just part of, so,

Speaker 2:
And we have been there you know, in and out of it. Yes.

Speaker 1:
Yeah. Because by the time you're, you know, I would say that can be peaking at 14, 15, maybe 16. And then sometimes when kids are a bit older, they can let some of that go 'cause there are more established as separate people. Yes. One of the challenges that, I'm glad you brought this topic up because we know that there's this challenge of raising a kid who's, who's got the characteristics of A-D-D-A-D-H-D, and I don't like the label. We're all, again, sort of dissatisfied with calling it a disorder or a deficit. I think it's a tremendous gift and it brings so many pluses, you know, speaking from personal experience with the diagnosis, but we do know a couple of things. Number one, that you take the child's chronological age and drop about 30% off that to get a, a better read on certain aspects of where they are.

Speaker 1:
So let's say an 18-year-old might be more like a 12-year-old in some areas in terms of remembering things or organization, time management. The problem there is that, well, let's say your son is 18, and we don't know how old he is, but let's just pick that number. If he's 18, he wants to function in the world as an 18-year-old man. And he may have some brain challenges that make him operate in some aspects of his life, like remembering appointments and so forth as a 12-year-old. And if you wanna see your kids succeed and you realize that they don't have the systems in place to keep everything, all the balls juggled, you know, in the air, then it's very easy to move into a place where you're the reminder, you're the organizer for them. And that adult part of them, or the part that's nearing adulthood, resents that because they know, Hey, I am, I could be making babies right now or parenting a child and you're reminding me to take my lunch to school.

Speaker 1:
So <laugh>, it's a true, real challenge. And the same is true by the way, for a 15-year-old who might be a little bit more like a 10 or 11-year-old and might be the quarterback on the football team, big guy, you know, already moved into puberty and yet can't remember to bring his lunch. So the first step of this, let's talk about what it is inside of you that gets activated when you're fearful that he's not remembering certain things or, or following through what is going on for you that kind of overrides your instinct to not say anything or not micromanage. Since we've all been there, what happens inside of you that makes, that you feel anxious about in terms of his, you know, where he is at?

Speaker 3:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.

Speaker 2:
Hmm. I think, I mean, I've grappled with this in all kinds of ways and I think that it's, you know, it's fear. Fear that he will not be all that he can be. And and maybe as you're the way you're saying it now, it will it be some kind of failure on my part, you know? Oh yeah. Oh, there it is. I didn't even see that coming. I think I've grappled with it in other ways, not necessarily specifically around me, but kind of, you know, around him more and this makes more sense. Wow. Okay.

Speaker 1:
Yeah, that's great. That's, that's hard and good. Mm-Hmm. That because our kids have this exquisite system to pick up our anxiety and there is something in them that really intuitively knows it is not my job to take care of my parents' emotional

Speaker 1:
Needs or wellbeing. They just know it's, it's a boundary crossing and not that we don't do it. So please, all of you who are micromanaging your children, don't worry, <laugh> <laugh>. But, but it is really important for us to at least start with, he is picking up that you feel anxious, whether it's informed by an accurate or an inaccurate assessment of what his life will be like if he doesn't go to the college counselor or forgets to, you know, show up at work on time. Not to say that there isn't a place for you to help him and support him, acknowledging that he has some challenges with that. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. But the first I'm always going to the root and the first place is, can you do that in a way that doesn't also convey your anxiety or your desire to control how he is moving in the world to, to manage your anxiety? Like he becomes the means by which you feel better in your skin. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>.

Speaker 3:
Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.

Speaker 2:
Oh, it's so funny because I think over the years as I've listened and, you know, whatever, I mean, it's, it's, it's also in my, in my professional life where I, you know, go to trainings, do all these things. And I don't think I've ever had it said to me in that way and that that changes, changes things. It's almost like I need to pause. But in a way that, because when you it, it, it's so true about how he communicates with me. It's like he knows exactly <laugh>, he can pinpoint what I'm feeling. I, he senses, I mean, as he's gotten older, he just looks at me like, mom, I know what you're thinking, <laugh>. You know, I feel you. You know. And and sometimes it's painful 'cause it's like, oh my gosh, you know? So, huh. So how can I do that?

Speaker 1:
Well, let's not even get into the how quite yet because I want you to, I don't want you to feel a pressure to fix that. Yes. I, I think that the first step is simply noticing in the moment when you see him racing out the door and you're pretty sure he forgot his lunch, if you could one time, even out of 10, notice catch yourself. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. Oh, there's a part of me right now, and it's not all of you. It's just a part of me that is feeling anxious that he'll be hungry today. Or that it, you know, the desire, like don't forget to contact, you know, to stop by your college counselor's office. Okay. What is that in me? What is the story I'm telling? This is why I love the things I've done with Byron Katie, and I think we're gonna do a class again.

Speaker 1:
We've done a bunch of things. I I love her work, but what is the story I'm telling about what might happen to him if he doesn't drop by his college counselor's office? And to be on much more friendly terms with that anxious part of you? Like to offer it the comfort that you're sort of trying to extract from your son, right? Yeah. So you can comfort that part of yourself, which is, I want to be the best parent I can be. I want to give my son the best start in life I can. I wanna give him advantages I might not have had. We all feel that way with our kids. We wanna do better by our children than maybe we experienced many of us. And, and to be on such compassionate terms with that part of ourselves. And then the, the voice that says, remind them about the college counselor <laugh>

Speaker 1:
Strangely, but magically, as you've pointed out, the way it comes out of your mouth might be a little different, like sweetie college counselor, or better yet, and we, you know, these are just short little vignette coaching sessions. But another thing I might coach you to do would be to work with him to set up a calendar and a reminder system, which one of the best things about technology is all these systems that interact with each other, the reminder app or the calendars and, and that can keep that, that have made a huge difference in my life. You know, know in, in terms of my A DHD and my, and, and teaching him those skills rather than, you know becoming, being his reminder app. Like being the replacement of what he ultimately needs to kind of create for himself.

Speaker 2:
Yeah.

Speaker 1:
But I love that you're getting this and maybe you could just say a few more words about what is what got, 'cause I could feel when I said that to you and you paused and you were quiet, like, if you could expand a little bit on that so that people listening understand. 'cause I think you have a beautiful way to articulate, you know, what that insight has been around what you're conveying unintentionally based on what you're feeling inside.

Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I, I'm writing some of this down and I think that I mean, when you said softer and I immediately thought of if I'm able to stop and look at what's going on for me then it'll automatically come out that way. And, and, and that's huge because I'm definitely sending him a message. And I think that's been the biggest hurdle that he, he kind of, you know, my husband struggles with it too, and I'm always kind of going like, you see the message you're sending him <laugh>, you know, <laugh>, and it's like, here I'm doing it too. And, you know, it's, you know, how that can be. And but it's, it's just that, as you were even saying it, I felt it in my body a little bit. Just like, oh, just that, like, I, I thought I'm just gentle, you know, and for me and, and possibly for him, you know? Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
That's so beautiful. Thank you. And also, it may be the kind of thing that as you sit with it and reflect on it and maybe journal about it or talk about it in therapy or feel into it, whatever works for you. It could be that you come back to your son and say, Hey, hey Tommy. You know, there's something I, I had a kind of an insight that I'd love to share with you. Is this a good time? Okay. What, you know, I've been thinking, I wonder how it is for you when I remind you of a lot of things and maybe you can feel that I'm kind of trying to control you a little bit. And I'm not saying I'm gonna stop doing that 'cause I'm a work in progress, but I just wanted to acknowledge that maybe sometimes you feel that kind of anxious energy for me and it maybe doesn't feel very good.

Speaker 2:
Oh, that's great. I think just as you said, the acknowledgement would be huge for him. Yeah. yeah. I'm sorry, I'm writing

Speaker 1:
<Laugh>. No, it's okay.

Speaker 2:
It's okay.

Speaker 1:
And by the way, you'll be able to, you know, hear this again, listen

Speaker 2:
To this. Okay. I thought about that. I thought I maybe I'll, I'll be able to listen to myself. Of

Speaker 1:
Course. Yeah, no, that's the whole, whole point is that I'm trying to, you know, I have, I have a membership program where I work with people twice a month and we do this, this is what we do, and then I have my intensive, which I'm launching, which is a deeper dive into the underlying elements that we carry forward from our own childhood that affect how we show up. And so all of those things are designed to support parents in making kind of the radical changes that aren't so easy to do after just reading a book or, you know, hearing a great podcast. Some people do, and you've obviously implemented a lot, but you're also a trained therapist. But I wanted people to kind of get a, a, a peek into it's work. Like, the reason I'm doing these is I want people to get, it's just not, I don't just say something and then, okay, great. We'll do that now.

Speaker 2:
No, it's hard work, man. <Laugh>.

Speaker 1:
Yes. It's hard, hard work.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. And yeah, and, and you know, as you've said, we're a work in progress and, and, and, you know, you you have to That's great. I will actually consider that for myself because I think it's, it's hard, you know, you can get ideas and you can implement certain things, but you've gotta, you've gotta take a look a little bit of a deeper look to get to some of these things. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
And, and all of this is because of what I've learned as a parent and a person. You know, I mean, I I I, it's often said, we teach what we need to learn. And for me, it was only when I started to really go deep into what is going on inside of me that I am unintentionally perhaps transmitting along with the loving things I was doing as a parent that I've inherited, that are so embedded in my being that they're unconscious, but that are showing up. Or for many parents who do struggle, like you with a child with a DHD, how could you not sometimes feel anxious when you, you know, who your child is and potentially could be, you know, what they're capable of. And yet they don't yet have, the fire hasn't yet been lit to override maybe the sluggishness or the distractibility or the impulsivity or the lack of organization that might get in the way of them being who they could be.

Speaker 1:
And we know, for instance, that pot marijuana can be the drug of choice for a lot of young kids. That it's just, that quiets the brain. It sort of settles you down. Some kids with a DD feel quite wound up. Yeah. And so how, how could you not want to intervene in some way? I'm not saying that parents should abdicate their role, it's just that when we clean up the, the vibe or the neediness that we convey as we're doing that, and we make it a lot more I guess I like the word clean less, less sort of soaked in our own neediness and anxiety and fear. Yes.

Speaker 2:
Yes.

Speaker 1:
It just comes across better with our kids.

Speaker 2:
I love that. Soaked in our own neediness and fear <laugh>.

Speaker 1:
It's so true

Speaker 2:
Though, you know, and yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
Well, thank you so, so much for showing up here in such a beautiful way and so helpful to so many parents.

Speaker 2:
Yes. And thank you, Susan. Like I said, I, I convey your ideas and I think I work predominantly with Latino and, and African American folks and, you know, they really struggled in life. And I, I wanna say that a lot of your parenting ideas have really landed with a lot of our folks. And I, I, I think it's, it's, part of it is the whole idea of a captain and having some, because I think folks get mixed messages, especially when they grow up in foster care and in, in, in, in even prisons from young age and when they become parents. And it's really hard. And I think just this idea that they have some control as a parent, it's, it's, it's been great and, and and wonderful just so, so in my personal life and my professional life. So I just wanna thank you and I know we're outta time, so

Speaker 1:
<Laugh> No, no, it's okay. And by the way, this is, I'm gonna say this to you

Speaker 1:
Gosh. 'cause I get emotional <laugh>. I would love to offer more of what I have available to the parents in your community. And if other people are listening to this podcast and you're associated with an agency that serves an underserved population, please reach out to us at support@susanspelman.com because really that is my hope, is that we reach parents who all of our stuff is very low cost. Yes. But that's still too expensive for a lot of people. And so I, I would like people to know that they can reach out to us at support@susanswell.com if, if you're associated with an agency that does that, so that we can figure out, we're trying to figure out how can we make some of this material available to people who really need it, need support, can't afford anything like you, who are doing such immensely important and valuable work. So please, please stay in touch around that. Maybe we can figure out a way to offer more.

Speaker 2:
Yes. That's great. I will. Thank you. Thanks again,

Speaker 1
<Laugh>. All right. Thank you so much for being here and to be continued.

Speaker 2:
Be continued. Thanks again. Bye-Bye.

Speaker 1:
I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. It's such a, an honor for me to talk with parents and really learn. I mean, this is how my work has developed. It's through these kind of practical applications of the ideas and interacting with people and doing the coaching. And I continue to learn this this far along in my c career. I still feel very much a student and I continue to learn from all of you. This is very special conversation, and I hope you took some of these ideas to heart of looking more deeply at what goes on inside of you as you're approaching your kids and perhaps struggling to stay calm and present and not reactive and more responsive and more patient and less triggered. Again, I mentioned the Parenting Without Power Struggles intensive, and we have such a wonderful way of offering that coming up.

Speaker 1:
It's available to you for a short time with lots of additional support, personal support from me. So you can find out more at susanstiffelman.com. And if you're enjoying this podcast series, I would be ever so grateful if you would write a short review, how, what did you learn, what have you gotten out of it? And of course, just leaving a rating is a huge help. So thank you for that. As we wrap up, I just wanna encourage you to thank yourself, acknowledge yourself for showing up, for being a parent who is wanting to transform, who is wanting to kind of exorcize the old patterns and ways of reacting from you so that you can replace them with conscious, present, engaged, attuned, secure connection with your children, even if you didn't experience it yourself. That is really what this work is all about. So I hope you appreciate yourself for taking a little time to tune in and to wanting to grow and develop yourself. This is the work, this is the beautiful work. Now, let's wrap up by saying just the same thing I say every time, because I really mean it. And when I say this, I want you to know I'm closing my eyes. I'm really feeling these words and the meaning behind them. Here they come. Remember, no matter how busy life gets, look for those moments of sweetness and joy. Stay well, take care, and I'll see you next time.