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Welcome to the Parenting Without Power Struggles podcast. I'm your host, Susan Stiffelman. You can learn more about my work at SusanStiffelman.com. We’ve got over 50 master classes on every topic under the sun related to raising kids and teens—from anxiety to chores to siblings to resourcing yourself when you're feeling overloaded or overwhelmed. The Resilient Brain features guests like Dan Siegel, Gabor Maté, Mona Delahooke, Janet Lansbury, Maggie Dent—so many wonderful people. I hope you’ll explore those offerings if you’re here to grow as a parent. And of course, we also have lots of free resources, including a great newsletter.Susan:
Hi, Kelsey! It’s so great to see you. I feel like I’ve known you for so long—even if it’s only been online. I remember your kids being tiny when you joined the membership.

Kelsey:
Yes! It’s been about six years. They were three and five, and now they’re nine and eleven.

Susan:
I invited you on today because of your new book, and wow—what perfect timing. Let me tell listeners a bit about you.
You’re a clinician, author, and advocate, and the founder of The AND Way, a practical model for navigating tension while maintaining connection across deep divides. You’ve worked extensively with unhoused veterans, trauma survivors, and people in recovery. Your work blends clinical insight with community advocacy, and you’re deeply involved in reconciliation efforts through Love Anyway.

When we talked months ago as you were finishing the book, I remember thinking: this could not be more relevant. What ultimately pushed you to write it?

Why the Book Was Born

Kelsey:
The model originally came from my personal work around food—realizing I didn’t want to choose either nutrition or pleasure, but that both could coexist. I brought that idea into my therapy practice and saw how powerful it was.

Then, during the pandemic, I noticed how my convictions around social justice created inner conflict when I interacted with people who thought differently. I caught myself making assumptions—about masking, about politics—and feeling stuck between staying silent or becoming reactive. I began applying the AND Way framework to these situations, and it transformed my relationships. That’s when I knew I needed to share it more broadly.

Raising Kids Who Can Handle Differences

Susan:
Everything comes back to parenting. We’re not just raising children; we’re raising the adults they’ll become. And today’s divisiveness shows how badly we need adults who can disagree respectfully.

How do we nurture that in our kids?

Kelsey:
One powerful starting point is how we label people in front of our kids. Instead of saying, “That’s a mean kid,” or “She’s a bad teacher,” separate the behavior from the person. It opens space for compassion and conversation.

Movies and shows that explore the origin story of a villain can also spark meaningful dialogue: How did this character become someone who hurts others? What pain did they experience? Kids learn to see beyond black-and-white thinking.

Avoiding Fixed Labels & Practicing the “Clay Mindset”

Susan:
I also love your idea of the “clay mindset.” Can you explain it?

Kelsey:
It’s an extension of Carol Dweck’s growth mindset. Clay can adapt and shift—it isn’t fixed. The clay mindset helps us stay flexible about ourselves and about other people. Instead of assuming, “They’ll never change,” we approach them with grace and possibility.

It’s not about replacing negative thoughts with positive ones, but about holding two truths at once:
“I’m trying, and I didn’t show up the way I wanted to.”
“I care about this relationship, and we disagree.”

Using the Clay Mindset in Daily Life

Susan:
Can you give an example of what this looks like with kids?

Kelsey:
Repair is a perfect opportunity. A parent might say:

“I’m still a kind mommy, and I messed up when I raised my voice earlier. That’s not how I want to behave.”

Kids learn that mistakes don’t define them—or anyone else.

Handling Challenging Family Dynamics

Susan:
As holidays come up, families will gather with people who have rigid or strongly opposing views. What can parents do?

Kelsey:
Teach kids the difference between intent and impact.
Grandma may criticize your parenting with the intention of caring, but the impact may feel belittling. Talking about this out loud helps kids learn nuance.

Also, we don’t have to engage in every tough conversation at the table. Some issues are better addressed later, privately. Connection often creates more room for change than confrontation does.

Susan:
And sometimes the goal isn’t even change—it’s understanding.

Moving From Tolerance to Respect

Kelsey:
Exactly. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. talked about “changing the face of the enemy.” The goal isn’t to make someone agree with us, but to help them see us—and themselves—with dignity.

If Uncle Joe believes all social workers or all liberals or all conservatives are one thing, a respectful interaction with you might shift that narrative. It humanizes both sides.

Doing the Internal Work

Susan:
You also write about the internal work required to show up this way.

Kelsey:
Yes. We all host internal conflict—different parts of us wanting different things. When we find compassion for our own parts, it becomes much easier to extend compassion to others. Self-compassion breeds outward compassion.

Practical Tools for Families

Kelsey:
Here’s something families can try immediately:

1. Explore the “villain” together.
During a movie night, ask: How did this character become someone who hurts others? What pain shaped them?

2. Practice the phrase “It makes sense…”
“It makes sense he acted that way because…”
“It makes sense I got impatient because…”

3. Try Susan’s ‘Golden Question’:
Why does this behavior make sense?
This reframes situations with curiosity rather than judgment.

Kelsey’s Closing Thoughts

Kelsey:
My hope is that people feel empowered to apply this in their relationships and families. You can find The AND Way on Amazon or at betheandwaypress.com. You can also explore my practice at theandwaytherapy.com or connect with me on Instagram @theandway.

Susan:
Thank you, Kelsey. This work is so important, and I hope everyone checks out your book.